This is a conversation that I recently got into with some long time LDS blogger aquaintenances that I have chatted with for over 8 years. I felt compelled to bring this conversation to my blog and archive it, because with some of these same folks, I have had over 500 posts deleted in one day. So I wanted to set the record straight, and archive it.
I’ve done this before when they have accused me of lying, cheating, and abusing them. ROFL. I either make a video, and/or archive these conversations for later. I have a whole collection of these conversations spanning over 8 years, because of how many times I’ve been censored by some of these folks.
Anyway, this conversation is about LDS sponsored prohibition. I made comments earlier in the conversation about “Why don’t LDS spend more money feeding the poor and helping out widows, and less time and money trying to take people’s rights away”..
Burt LDS in brown, Whew in blue and me in red:
If you drink that coffee your going to hell
“Then you make a statement that the LDS financed over half of the Prop 8 campaign! First off the LDS Church did not contribute any money to the Prop 8 campaign! Second what ever the real contribution by LDS members to the Prop 8 campaign, it is within their right to contribute to what they want to pass! No real rights were taken away by prop 8 just the right to call a same sex union a marriage, which is not a right!” My Previous comment!
Burt, if the LDS leaders that urged the members to donate, doesn’t qualify. And if the members don’t make up the organization. Then you have a point.
Here is an apostle urging the members to support the initiative: http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=1B2ECCDC5A032A82&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&v=ewXaVmfOj2w
And the members responded. The members make the church. Without the members, the organization doesn’t exist.
Again I want you to back up your claim that the LDS Church financed over 50% of the Prop 8 campaign or admit that you Lied!
What happens when you learned the truth? Do you apologize Burt?
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints,[44][45][46] whose members are commonly known as Mormons, also publicly supported the proposition. The First Presidency of the church announced its support for Proposition 8 in a letter intended to be read in every congregation in California. In this letter, church members were encouraged to “do all you can to support the proposed constitutional amendment by donating of your means and time.”[47][48] The response of the LDS membership to their leadership’s appeals to donate money and volunteer time was very supportive,[49] such that Latter-day Saints provided a significant source for financial donations in support of the proposition, both inside and outside the State of California.[50] About 45% of out-of-state contributions to ProtectMarriage.com came from Utah, over three times more than any other state.[51] ProtectMarriage, the official proponents of Proposition 8, estimate that about half the donations they received came from LDS sources, and that “eighty to ninety percent” of the early volunteers going door-to-door were LDS.[52] The LDS Church produced and broadcast to its congregations a program describing the opposition to the Proposition, and describing the timeline it proposes for what it describes as grassroots efforts to oppose the Proposition.[53][54] Local LDS leaders set organizational and monetary goals for their membership-sometimes quite specific-to fulfill this call.
Minnesota, Kansas, Oklahoma, Colorado and Utah all have 3.2 beer laws!
I’ve lived in Colorado, a state where in fact you CAN buy wine in the grocery store, which IS stronger than 3.2%. Don’t misinterpret what I said.
If I want to cook with wine, I can go to the grocery store in the states that you have listed, and buy wine for my meal. In Utah, no go.In Utah the only beer you can buy in a grocery, convenience, or drug store is 3.2 % by weight the only place you can buy higher content beer is in Liquer stores and some bars with Liquer license, with high content beer aproval! In Colorado the only beer you can buy in a Grocery store or convenience store is 3.2% by weight Some drug stores can sell 5% by volume beer! Some bars can get a licence to sell 5% by volume beer but they are not allowed to advertise the higher content, therefore you never know what you may get when you walk in to a bar! In Minnesota, some places can get a license to sell 5% by volume beer but it is not easy! In oklahoma 3.2% by weight is the normal but some places can sell 5% by volume beer but it has to be at room temperature!
See my last response.
How did Utah get 3.2% by weight beer in the first place? Federal regulation during prohibition! Many states were slow to change to higher contents after the law was changed! Most states were more concerned with harder Alcholol. But the 5 listed above still have not increase the alchohol level in Beer! How much difference is there between 3.2% by weight and 5% by volume? 3.2% by weight is the same as 4% by volume so it is 1% difference by volume! the difference between beer and 80 proof vodka (40% by volume) is 35% by volume 1% does not seem as much does it?
Did you fail to comment on the fact that Utah was the only state in the Union with “Private Clubs” as opposed to traditional pubs and bars?
http://www.sltrib.com/tourism/ci_12721457don’t you feel foolish constantly posting false information and statements that have no basis in facts?
Out of all of the times I have to repeat the facts, and provide sources, over and over again. Sometimes it’s just too much for me. I posted the truth (again) and I just backed it up (again). Do you ever feel compelled to offer an apology? After 8 years, probably not… ;(Burt
Whew says:
Good post Steve! Isn’t it interesting how Ryan claims Aspirin has killed more people than “Weed”. I sometimes watch the TV program called “Cops”, and it is very interesting at how many times the Police stop guy’s and gal’s under the influence of “Pot”, “weed” take your pick. And it is very interesting how the Police will not let them continue to drive their car, I wonder why?
I have never advocated for anyone to drive while intoxicated on anything. Not pain killers, not alcohol, not prozac. I don’t believe in driving while intoxicated, and Im glad that there are laws against it.
However, if you want to know more about it, have you ever tried to find a study that demonstrates how a person reacts while stoned?
I have, here is one of few studies on the subject. (BTW- If you look up statistics, there isn’t much to find there either. Why?)~Ryan
Links
Alcohol related automobile fatalities in the USA
Information about marijuana related auto fatalities
Video showing a drunk man buying alcohol at 10:45 in the morning
Video of a man driving while stoned (televised study of the effects before and after)
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3zou4F00Ic[/youtube]
You decide which is more harmful. Cannabis, or alcohol… I dont advocate for driving while intoxicated. However, there is a reason why there are 40 million marijuana smokers in the USA, and so few marijuana related accidents. And it has nothing to do with prohibition.
More information about Prop 8 financing: http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2009/01/top-officials-w.html
(this post was removed from the original blog, or at least made private so that general visitors of the site can’t see it.
“Then you make a statement that the LDS financed over half of the Prop 8 campaign! First off the LDS Church did not contribute any money to the Prop 8 campaign! Second what ever the real contribution by LDS members to the Prop 8 campaign, it is within their right to contribute to what they want to pass! No real rights were taken away by prop 8 just the right to call a same sex union a marriage, which is not a right!” My Previous comment!
Burt, if the LDS leaders that urged the members to donate, doesn’t qualify. And if the members don’t make up the organization. Then you have a point.
Here is an apostle urging the members to support the initiative: http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=1B2ECCDC5A032A82&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&v=ewXaVmfOj2w
And the members responded. The members make the church. Without the members, the organization doesn’t exist.
Again I want you to back up your claim that the LDS Church financed over 50% of the Prop 8 campaign or admit that you Lied!
What happens when you learned the truth? Do you apologize Burt?
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints,[44][45][46] whose members are commonly known as Mormons, also publicly supported the proposition. The First Presidency of the church announced its support for Proposition 8 in a letter intended to be read in every congregation in California. In this letter, church members were encouraged to “do all you can to support the proposed constitutional amendment by donating of your means and time.” Local LDS leaders set organizational and monetary goals for their membership-sometimes quite specific-to fulfill this call.[47][48] The response of the LDS membership to their leadership’s appeals to donate money and volunteer time was very supportive,[49] such that Latter-day Saints provided a significant source for financial donations in support of the proposition, both inside and outside the State of California.[50] About 45% of out-of-state contributions to ProtectMarriage.com came from Utah, over three times more than any other state.[51] ProtectMarriage, the official proponents of Proposition 8, estimate that about half the donations they received came from LDS sources, and that “eighty to ninety percent” of the early volunteers going door-to-door were LDS.[52] The LDS Church produced and broadcast to its congregations a program describing the opposition to the Proposition, and describing the timeline it proposes for what it describes as grassroots efforts to oppose the Proposition.[53][54]
Minnesota, Kansas, Oklahoma, Colorado and Utah all have 3.2 beer laws!
I’ve lived in Colorado, a state where in fact you CAN buy wine in the grocery store, which IS stronger than 3.2%. Don’t misinterpret what I said.
If I want to cook with wine, I can go to the grocery store in the states that you have listed, and buy wine for my meal. In Utah, no go.
In Utah the only beer you can buy in a grocery, convenience, or drug store is 3.2 % by weight the only place you can buy higher content beer is in Liquer stores and some bars with Liquer license, with high content beer aproval! In Colorado the only beer you can buy in a Grocery store or convenience store is 3.2% by weight Some drug stores can sell 5% by volume beer! Some bars can get a licence to sell 5% by volume beer but they are not allowed to advertise the higher content, therefore you never know what you may get when you walk in to a bar! In Minnesota, some places can get a license to sell 5% by volume beer but it is not easy! In oklahoma 3.2% by weight is the normal but some places can sell 5% by volume beer but it has to be at room temperature!
See my last response.
How did Utah get 3.2% by weight beer in the first place? Federal regulation during prohibition! Many states were slow to change to higher contents after the law was changed! Most states were more concerned with harder Alcholol. But the 5 listed above still have not increase the alchohol level in Beer! How much difference is there between 3.2% by weight and 5% by volume? 3.2% by weight is the same as 4% by volume so it is 1% difference by volume! the difference between beer and 80 proof vodka (40% by volume) is 35% by volume 1% does not seem as much does it?
Did you fail to comment on the fact that Utah was the only state in the Union with “Private Clubs” as opposed to traditional pubs and bars?
http://www.sltrib.com/tourism/ci_12721457
don’t you feel foolish constantly posting false information and statements that have no basis in facts?
Out of all of the times I have to repeat the facts, and provide sources, over and over again. Sometimes it’s just too much for me. I posted the truth (again) and I just backed it up (again). Do you ever feel compelled to offer an apology? After 8 years, probably not… ;(
Burt
Whew says:
Good post Steve! Isn’t it interesting how Ryan claims Aspirin has killed more people than “Weed”. I sometimes watch the TV program called “Cops”, and it is very interesting at how many times the Police stop guy’s and gal’s under the influence of “Pot”, “weed” take your pick. And it is very interesting how the Police will not let them continue to drive their car, I wonder why?
I have never advocated for anyone to drive while intoxicated on anything. Not pain killers, not alcohol, not prozac. I don’t believe in driving while intoxicated, and Im glad that there are laws against it.
However, if you want to know more about it, have you ever tried to find a study that demonstrates how a person reacts while stoned?
I have, here is one of few studies on the subject. (BTW- If you look up statistics, there isn’t much to find there either. Why?)
~Ryan
Links
Alcohol related automobile fatalities in the USA
Information about marijuana related auto fatalities
Video showing a drunk man buying alcohol at 10:45 in the morning
Video Showing a stoned man using cannabis while driving (before getting stoned and after)
You decide which is more harmful. Cannabis, or alcohol… I dont advocate for driving while intoxicated. However, there is a reason why there are 40 million marijuana smokers in the USA, and so few marijuana related accidents. And it has nothing to do with prohibition.
More information about Prop 8 financing: http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2009/01/top-officials-w.html
